Welcome to the Freedom Fridays Project Podcast. I'm Pete Clark, your host, the Whispers Guy. It appears that work expands to the time that we give it and I started to explore how I was investing my time and effort, particularly on Fridays. It's evolved to an exploration and experiment with time, energy, attention and identity, and a mindset shift from I have to, to I choose to. So if you're interested in exploring some changes to the way that you invest your time and energy, if you'd like some tips on the way as you make some changes, perhaps to your identity, if you would like the freedom of I choose to, away from I have to, then this is the podcast for you. So welcome to the Freedom Fridays Project Podcast. Welcome to this week's episode of The Freedom Fridays Podcast, episode number 44, which is part two of my conversation with Glin Bayley, author of Unstoppable Woman and founder of Heart of Human. In the second part of our conversation, Glin shares her thoughts on the difference between female leadership and leadership in general, and has quite a radical take on that, and dispels some myths about the premise of working on your self is selfish. She shares her very generously, Heart of Human framework that supported many, many unstoppable women around the world. And as part of that, shares some insights about how our feelings are a guidance system, to embrace the messiness of life and the power of active hope. Enjoy the second part of my conversation with Glin Bailey. I'm fascinated about your experience in research with female leadership. How in any way is it different from leadership?
It's not. It's not in any way, shape, or form. And it's just one of those things where, again, principles of life or marketing or whatever context we want to take on board. When I started my business, it wasn't focused on any gender, in particular or any speciality and then it's, you hear narratives about choose a niche, focus on a particular area, try and do something that's for someone specifically, because if you're not for someone, you'd say, you're for everyone, but you're essentially for no one. So I made a conscious decision at that time to say, Well, okay, it's not that I, what I teach is any different for women versus what it would be for men. But if I was to say who do I best connect with based on my journey and can empathise with deeply, understand and get in the head of more easily based on the kind of narrative that I know I had about my identity at work, who I thought I needed to be, the life that I needed to create, I could have those conversations with the women that I work with, from a place of experience and understanding, and relatability. And what's fascinating is, I probably had it not been just need to niche so that I can try and target a particular market, I probably would have worked with men, and I actually really enjoy sharing the content with men, but I just haven't yet figured out or let myself explore the avenue for which I might do that, at this point in time. I think it's changing. Certainly at the time. I chose it felt like heart was still a step too far into the soft space of leadership. I know right, it's horrific. But yes, trying to pitch what I do to corporates, which I tried for the first year of my business, just wasn't connecting. And I thought that narrative, it might be there now, but the narrative certainly wasn't there at that time, like Holistic Coaching and Performance Coaching focused on whole of person, whole of life, it wasn't like corporate leadership and self leadership was seen as two different types of leadership.
Yes, do that self leadership in your own time.
Yes, you're still a human, focus on the human then you'll get all of the stuff that you want from a performance perspective in the capitalist society that's focused on driving revenue and profits and shareholder value, so yes.
Did you think women have enough good role models? And do you think those role models translate into role models for anyone?
I think, I've got my view on this, it's not so much do they have enough role models? I think you have to be willing to look for them. And I think it's true for anyone is that what we give attention to grows, and we can sit with the narrative of there are not enough women role modelling or there's not enough of a certain type. But I just have a perspective that if, and this is something that recently through my negotiation consulting work was one of the key principles there is that for when it comes to negotiation is that, you're more equal than you think when you thinking about the other party that you're negotiating with, and where the balance of power lies. But I bring that into life and think, we often give role models, celebrities, people that hold status in society, people who have wealth, live in certain suburbs in Sydney, or drive certain cars or have certain economic benefits versus others, privilege to make us think that they're somehow in a different category, to who we are and what we're capable of, and needing them to be a certain way for us to go, oh, there's someone that I can aspire to, or the responsibility sits outside of myself for others. And I'm in the camp of, well, who do you want to be first, like, decide who you actually want to be? And the only way you can do that is by tuning in and going inwards, to listen to your own heart, your soul's guidance around what actually really inspires you, where are you spending your time and energy? And then go and have a look to see if there's anyone that's doing what lights you up out there? And if there isn't, do that. Do that so that you can get to be the role model that says I had no clue which path I was treading until I just took one step at a time, and found myself doing something different. That's what I genuinely feel like I've done, I haven't actively gone oh, there's a lack of role models and that's what I'm going to be I've just gone, what do I want to do with my life? And how can I just do what I want to do. And then if it helps other people along the way, super, I used to think that I was more altruistic, that I needed to have a more 'Make a difference' purpose in life, but I've realised actually, and this is going to sound really selfish, the person I need to make a difference to is me. Because if I make a difference to myself, but if I can see myself clearly, if I can not hold myself apart from the possibilities of creating the life that I want to be living, then my joy, my energy, my inspiration, will inspire others to choose their path. And I think I've had it confused before that I needed to be of service to other people that I, and we hear that a lot in various business forums, don't sell, serve, and you've got to be there to serve. I'm like yes you are, but start with serving yourself, first, fill your own cup, find what it is that sparks joy in your life, and then share that because you've found something that works for you, rather than working from the outside in. So I'm flipping the script, in a lot of different areas in my life at the moment, even pulling apart what I've done before, and gone, is that true? Or is that just, was it a social conditioning that I've picked up from social environments or work environments that made me believe it was true? And again, another false belief that I've taken on but actually now can choose to disregard and move away from.
So I'm in the same camp Glin, I think we are the instruments ourselves. How do you, how would you handle the sceptic that says, you know, working on yourself, that's selfish.
Oh, so you want me to work on you? And that's not selfish. No, I'm joking, I'm playing with you here. What I'm meaning is when someone says, the sceptic says, it sounds selfish, yes it is. And why is that a bad thing? Because I'm taking responsibility for my happiness myself. I'm not making you or anyone else responsible for my happiness. But if you're saying me thinking about me is selfish, is you asking me to think about you or anyone else less selfish?
I like the turn around.
Yes, that was where I was trying to get to the, Hold on a minute when the critic says you're being selfish. Oh, right okay, yes I get it. I'm being selfish, because I'm thinking about me, but you want me to think about you and other people. And that's not that's not selfish.
You had many of my own transderivational search there.
So, I think it's a good thing if we are selfish, not because it means were less caring, or empathetic for others needs. But because it means I'm taking radical responsibility for my life, for my life, my well being, my attitude, my creation of wealth, my creation of health, well being, whatever it is, I am taking responsibility for me. And that has meant when it comes to friendships, relationships, partnerships, it's everything I'm here to offer then becomes, sounds weird, but becomes unconditiona, because I'm not looking for anyone to fill my cup, or meet me from a place of lack. It comes from a place of going well, I'm already full and I'm having a really good time. So if we want to co create something together and expand our impact, our growth, our journeys, by collaborating on things that bring the best out of each other, out for us to play, great, let's do that. But I don't want to, I don't want to live a life with someone else or community and society is saying, Oh, you need to be in service of others. We're teaching each other to be reliant on other people to meet our own needs. And I'm like, it's a bit screwy, it's not for me.
Years ago, I think it might have been Jim Rohn, one of the first guys in personal development said, and I took it on board, and I've, my wife and I've used this imperfectly over the years, that I'll look after me for you, as long as you look after you for me.
100%, that is exactly the motto. Yes. If we both focus on our happiness or, I'll be happy for me so that I'm then good for you and you do the same. You take care of your happiness, I'll take care of mine. It's not that we're going to be super happy. Yes, absolutely. 100% that is beautifully articulated.
So you run an eight week online programme for women called Unstoppable Women. So I'm assuming there's going to be some key messages in that. My first question about that is so what makes women stop?
Well, let me flip it around the other way. Unstoppable woman doesn't mean you can't stop because sometimes you have to stop in order to be unstoppable. So unstoppable woman and this is the interesting narrative is people go, Oh that means I've got to do more, I've got to do more, achieve more, get further ahead. Unstoppable woman is about having the wisdom to see when it's necessary to slow down to go faster, when it's necessary to stop because you're going in a direction that you don't actually want to go. It's about recognising that in order to be unstoppable you have to come home to yourself, which is all about being more, not doing more. So it teaches a lot around tuning in to your intuition, how you do that, what you're listening for. Understanding your feelings, how they affect your behaviours, and then your thoughts. So most people say change your thoughts and then ultimately change your reality. I'm like, well, sometimes we have really screwy thoughts, like we all do. So how about I focus on, rather than trying to change my thoughts, which could be much harder than it seems because the spectrum of thoughts is so broad and there's so many different topics that I could be thinking about, or why don't I focus on my feelings instead, because my spectrum of feelings is actually quite small, there's a range and it's a much easier range to manage. And I can say, right, I'm feeling angry or say for example, I'm in despair, it's a really powerless feeling. So instead of trying to evaluate my thoughts around what's causing the thought of despair, and what am I feeling, just going well I'm feeling like I'm powerless, or I'm in despair, what is a better feeling that I can strive for next, and it might be blame. And it might be something that sounds like, that's not a really positive emotion. But I'm like, there's more power in blaming someone than feeling despair. So you can move through an emotional guidance system that says each stage, and it's not to say that you're going to sit in blame, but you might then go to right, okay, I'm going to go to frustration, and I'm going to go to anger, and I'm working my way up. But each of those feelings have a sense of energetic power attached to them and what you're doing in working through them is actually process that, is to say, Well, ultimately now I've got to the point of acceptance, which is neutral, I can move to contentment, and then I can go to seek to joy. But we have this narrative that we're either going to be super happy, or we're going to be sad, or we should be really up and never down. And I'm like, well, there's just stages on that and if you start tuning in, and really caring about what you feel, what I've been able to get clients and women that have gone through the programme is to recognise your feelings are going to tell you significantly faster, whether or not you're on track to creating the life that you want to create, and your thoughts. Tune into that first, then you get into the habit of feeling, choosing a feeling that you want to feel and then noticing when you're not feeling it. And that automatically starts changing your thoughts. So it's feeling first, change of thought, create your reality.
It does worry me a little bit that the whole original intention of the kind of positive psych movement has become surface and that people aren't willing to sit in Meh, they're not willing to sit in, I'm a bit bored today, they've always got to be positive, which, then that becomes toxic, be positive, and it actually buries that stuff even deeper.
Exactly, yes I agree. And I think that's why, with the emotional guidance system, it's saying, you're just seeking the next best feeling that you can reach on a scale at this point in time. And sometimes, I even let myself think about revenge, if I'm getting really frustrated, something like revenge is a more powerful emotion, doesn't mean I'll do anything, but I can imagine something around it and immediately have changed my energy, my vibration goes up a level and then I can go, Ah, you're not even worth my time. And you move through it, but you have to use the whole spectrum of emotions, they're there to guide and the contrast is necessary, we would never feel and you know, this will never feel the joy that we would feel or the elation of a huge win if we didn't have those down moments, those failures, those parts of our journey that we just wish we didn't have to go through in order to get the high, but the contrast makes it.
I think that's a really good distinction Glin and really helpful for people to first of all, accept you're not going to go from pissed off to happy in one leap, but what's the next step beyond being pissed off? And that becomes this, what I think you said emotional guidance scale. That's a really really helpful metaphor and scale I think for people to consider. I noted that you called your business Heart of Human, and there may not be an answer to this but I'm going to ask it anyway. How do you listen to your heart?
Good question. I think it comes back to the same piece is my feelings first rather than...
Don't my feelings come from my head?
Parts of them do yes, when you're in your logic brain but our emotional system, our animal instincts, our emotions, a lot of that is subconscious. Yes, it's a part of your brain that you might go from a neuroscience perspective, it's in your subconscious brain and it's dealing with all of that, but I'm kind of going, your feelings are the guidance system to that, and that allows me to access what I understand about my heart. My business Heart of Human was one, linked to what is the heart of being human and it's messy. Oh my god, life is messy being human. It is messy. So it's embracing the mess and then it linked to the framework that I had created that was the guidance, sort of the foundation for my coaching model. And it was something that had come up after I reflected back on my own journey from dealing with heartbreak and healing after that period, was me looking back and going, Well, how did I move through that? What did I do? And it was heart, but it's an acronym that stands for, Hope. I needed to have hope for a better future, I needed to believe in something else was better awaiting me. Energy, I needed to have the energy to move forwards towards that new future, staying stuck without the energy wasn't going to support me getting there. I needed to take action and aligned action, so not action that I felt I should take, which is why I'm in such a questioning mode at the moment, because I'm like, Oh, I think I've fallen off my own model! Aligned action. So what do I need to do that helps me to move towards that aspirational hope that I've got. Resilience, because shit does hit the fan and you need to find ways to navigate life, as I said, it's messy. And then Trust, because life is like a game of cards, we can have a good understanding of the odds but there's still a chance that we'll pick the wrong one. And even when we play the best odds, there's a chance we can still lose at it right? So you have to trust in the uncertainty that life presents and be willing to lean into the discomfort that not knowing presents to you. And there's a lot of people that find not knowing scary and I would be one of them previously, this, my life is mapped out, I'd have kids, I'd do my thing, I'd grow old gracefully with my partner. And now I've stopped planning for what my life needs to look like by certain milestones, I've stopped chasing a goal in the more physical sense of here's my achievement, here's my achievement, because again, I felt I realised more recently that I felt like I've been compensating for relationship ending, not having kids, still being single, and needing then my business to be my baby and my success method like, Hey, my life isn't completely a failure, look, I have this successful business. And then going, Oh, this is like misdirected focus, and what are you doing and why are you doing it. So bringing myself back to that trust piece to say, well, actually, now I don't need to set goals around the What, I just need to set my heart to be aligned as the main key thing, my feelings need to feel positive. And if they're off wack, then I'm going to start sensing my environment and choosing based on what my feelings are guiding me to do. It doesn't mean I don't plan, but it just means I'm less attached to the outcome. So not worried about the outcome, I'm really so much more present for the journey.
Glin, I think that's a fabulous framework you've come up with and I think people more than just women would benefit from it. But if it's okay with you, we'll probably put some of that in the show notes so people can have a look if they're interested. And I love what you said around embracing the mess. I think most people, we tend to try and avoid the mess, because it's hard and it's difficult and it's sticky, and it's messy. And yet embracing the mess because it's going to happen, is a really positive thing. I remember, I'd be interested in your take on this now, when we first met one of the things that attracted to me, attracted me to your thinking was you in the public forum talked about that framework, and somebody challenged you on the word hope. And that it's a weak emotion. I don't think they said that, but they challenged you that hope was such a weak thing to start with, and I thought you answered it beautifully. How do you answer the sceptic that says, Hope? Well, that's just so weak.
Find me a human that doesn't have it. There is not a human in the world that would survive without hope. We all need it. And corporates will spin that hope is not a plan. Sure, it's not a plan. I'm not suggesting it is a plan. But you have to have belief in something that you cannot see, a hope for a better future, a desire that's going to call you and drive you to create something that might make a meaningful contribution for you, your family, those that you care about. And I think if you find me a human without hope you'll find them in despair, and despair is an incredibly powerless emotion, and those in despair don't create positive change, they are in a worse than survival state. So, yeah, hope is not by any stretch a plan, but it is not by any means a weak word.
I will always associate that word with you. And I came across a distinction that I felt was speaking into that space recently was the difference between active hope and passive hope. Passive hope sounds a little bit that I'm going to cross my fingers and hope. Whereas active hope sounds like it's doing what you've suggested, have a picture of what could be, do something about moving towards that vision of what could be.
Love that distinction. Yes, that really helps, yes love it.
So Glin, I'm conscious of we, what seems to be happening on these conversations with people, I connect with people that I like, and enjoy having a conversation with them and go, it's going to be about 20 minutes and then an hour later, we go Oh we better pause. I've got a couple of final questions, if you wouldn't mind. What's your hope for your future?
My hope is that I keep continuing to choose alignment to my heart, and to not lose my head in the pursuit of that.
Great answer and final question, and then I'll maybe just do some short questions. What do you stand for now?
I wish people could see the picture of you saying that and how much energy and acceptance and love is coming from your face.
Thank you. Yes I do feel that's what I stand for now.
Glin, I normally finished with kind of five quickfire questions. So you didn't know these were coming, so please give us the first response from your heart. Are you more sunrise or sunset?
Okay. What a maxim you live your life by?
Live Your Truth.
What's the last movie you cried at?
Oh, I think it's The Last Letter From Your Lover.
What's something you've let go?
Oh, that's a hard one. I've let go of the need to be seen as a success.
Cool, and final question, apart from your own books, because I know you've got a couple, what's another book that's changed your life?
Actually, Kamal Ravikant's Live Your Truth. Yes, it's a small book, random, people have hardly heard of him. He is a tech entrepreneur in Silicon Valley, but wrote this spiritual book for his own little awakening. And it really started my path to going, what is me living my truth, which is where the maxim also came from.
Well Glin, it's been a pleasure and enlightening and energising having a chat with you. I really appreciate your time. Thank you for sharing everything about your heart that you're willing to share.
Thank you so much, Pete. What an expert conversationalist, you are such an absolute joy and thank you for listening so intently and asking me the curly questions that got me thinking, it's been a really valuable chat. Thank you.
You're welcome. Cheers.