Welcome to the Freedom Fridays Project podcast. I'm Pete Clark, your host, the whispers guy. It appears that work expands to the time that we give it and I started to explore how I was investing my time and effort, particularly on Fridays. It's evolved to an exploration and experiment with time, energy, attention and identity. And a mindset shift from I have to, to I choose to. So if you're interested in exploring some changes to the way that you invest your time and energy, if you'd like some tips on the way as you make some changes, perhaps to your identity, if you would like the freedom of I choose to, away from I have to, then this is the podcast for you. So welcome to the Freedom Fridays Project podcast. Welcome to this week's episode of Freedom Fridays, I've got a very dear friend of mine, who, probably unbeknownst to her actually, I remember a significant coaching moment that she's one of the very few people that have helped me with that over the years. And because she doesn't even know I'm saying this, she might even ask me about it later. But it's a very dear friend of mine, who I've known for a number of years in the UK. And again, because of the pandemic we have connected again. And we're both in a very similar workspace. But we've both been jostling with what's been happening to our world. And so I'm delighted to welcome Harriet on to the show. Harriet welcome.
Thank you very much for having me. And of course, I'm now completely intrigued as to what this coaching moment was.
Yeah, I'll share it with you either on this if it's relevant or offline. But Harriet, I normally start this by, you know, the premise of Freedom Fridays was choice was, you know, adding life to our years. And, you know, speaking to people, ordinary people that are doing extraordinary things, people who've have made big changes. How have you gone about that? What forced you, what, did you choose to do, any red flags on the way? So that's how I start it. So I'm gonna open up with that. So for you with what you're going through, or having gone through, what's the big change that you made?
Oh, gosh, I think there's a number that come up for me. One that comes up is writing a book because I'm writing another book. So it's like, how do you do that when you've got other stuff going on. I think the other one was going from dabbling with the stand up comedy to the first show with the Edinburgh Fringe. And I'm a normal middle aged mum, right. So this wasn't me as a young starry eyed with the snapper getting off, so I think it's probably the latter because that unlocks a lot of - if I can figure out what I did there, then I think there's lots of other changes I can make. By the way, can I also apologise, I know my sound is quiet. So listeners, my neighbours during lockdown have done a Mexican wave of building as soon as one of them stops, the next one starts. So this is most likely way of actually hearing me.
That's cool. Look, if you're happy, I would love to pick up on the stand up comedy piece. Partly because I'm intrigued by it. Partly because I love having a laugh. And I know there's probably you know, anyone listening is probably sitting there. They'll immediately have crossed arms and gone, Come on then make me laugh.
Oh I wouldn't even try? No, I mean, you know, pay good money and we sit in a club, maybe. But I know that's one of the worst bits actually, you're in Edinburgh, you're flyering. I think everyone on this planet should have to do flyering at one point in their lives. It's the most humbling experience. (Explain what flyering is) Flyering is you literally handing out flyers to your show. There are 3000 plus shows. So you have to do everything you can to get people in. And it's soul destroying. You're there with these flyers for this show that you spent an awful lot of time and money creating, and people are either dismissive or they're actively rude. And I'm sure that they're lovely people, but then people who do engage, will be like alright then make us laugh. Um this is a show about menopause, I'm not sure that a one liner on a street is really going to sell it to you or whatever.
Yeah, well, so maybe a little bit for the listeners who don't quite appreciate, the Edinburgh Comedy Festival, which is what you're talking about where you did one of your shows or one of many, is around the world probably, it's like the Oscars for comedians, right? (It's the largest festival in the world, yeah) Wow. So you starred, my words, you starred at the Edinburgh Festival? That's like the World Cup for a comedian surely?
Well, yes and no, because imagine a World Cup where you can bring your own football boots and stand in a dodgy park in the middle of nowhere and go, I'm at the World Cup. So kind of DIY World Cup.
Yeah, cool. I mean, I think you're playing it down a little bit. You know, it's very impressive as far as I'm concerned. But can I pick up on just the start of that? So, when did you know you were funny?
It's really interesting question that, because it feels a bit like saying to someone, you know, Aren't you good looking? It's one of those skills that if you say you're funny, you instantly sound like a bit of an idiot. Do you know what I mean? It's a bit like, I had a friend who was very, very good looking at school. And yeah, people would try and trip her up by going, do you think you're good looking? And if she said, No, theyre like Urgh And if she said, Yes, they went Urgh. So I find that a really difficult question to answer without... and that I think for me is interesting about how we see ourselves and our identity. And there's a whole baggage of stuff there, right? I think as a kid, I was that classic, I was a real geek at school, very academic, and that was not cool. So if you wanted to stop, you know, the school bullies throwing things at you in the lunch hall, you better find a way of getting them on side and for me, it was being funny. And also in our family environment, it was highly valued. My dad's very funny. So I think I'm just trying to be like my dad.
Interesting. I've read a lot about in many circumstances, comedians, in particular, have used humour to fit in and you know, to stop the bullying from kids, as you said, so do you think that's within all of us, and what do you think causes one person or another to choose humour as a way of fitting in?
I am fascinated around y'know, we have to fit in. You know, as an, from an evolutionary psychology perspective, for the research I've done is, you know, we have to fit in. In caveman days, we would have been kicked out of the tribe, we would have died, you couldn't have survived alone. So it's crucial, crucial, crucial. And laughter is a fascinating mechanism. So when there's the difference between voluntary and involuntary laughter. If you you want to find out more Dr. Sophie Scott has got an amazing TED Talk. And, you know, so it's a really nuanced way of kind of social cohesion of shared goals of smoothing over mistakes that, you know, it's got a lot of social value. So I don't think it's any different from any of the other social skills, building rapport, or, you know, they all intermingle. And I just think I'm intrigued by why culturally, it has this kind of like, difference attached to it. I don't actually think, it's a bit like sales, right? You say to someone, you know, oh, I'm a salesman, and to some people, that's an identity they want to have. And other people find that, oh, I don't want to be a salesman, that's really cheap and nasty. But if you unpick the skills within it, you know, what, Can you build report? Oh I'm up for that. You know, Can you persuade someone? Oh I'd be up for that. Can you add value, help someone solve their problems? I'd be up for that. So that's a very long winded way of answering that I think humour is actually just a composite of lots of skills we all have.
I remember when we first, not when we first met, but when we first knew each other. A good friend of ours making the distinction when we're facilitating rather than telling jokes, having fun. And having fun part was what connects us as opposed to telling gags here's the joke, right, can we move on over serious stuff and be willing to be playful. To what extent does that show up when you're doing your stand up?
Oh, the best gigs are definitely the ones where you feel free and you can go anywhere. So the set that you've got is kind of your safety zone. You're like safety dance, if you know I mean, if somebody else comes out, if the DJ plays something else, then you'll happily dance, whatever. So you know, riffing off the audience going off on a tangent. And I always, it's painful, but I will video myself and always look back at gigs and try and unpick what worked and what didn't and why. And you can just see it, the nights where I've died on my backside. There is totally wooden frozen, hesitating, you know, you could just see versus the nights where it's gone well, where you just like having a laugh with your mates who happen to be complete strangers in a club?
Tell me, any milestones you have gone from, you know, as you said, a geek at school to stand up comedy at the Edinburgh Festival. If someone was trying to make a massive, 'cause that seems like a huge leap. Were there any key milestones on the way?
Yeah, for sure. So I think it is part of how I see myself that I, you know, I really value being funny. I think it has massive, as you say some people see it as frivolous. I've got told off at work by various bosses. And you know, and fair enough, I can see that in a couple of times, I've probably been distracting in meetings or something. So I think it's, you can use it for the good or the bad as it were, it's like any skill, you can overplay it. But I, you know, I don't think we take humour seriously enough, it's such a valuable tool. So it's a big part of my identity, and I value it. So that's always been there since school. And then I think you get, it gets reinforced, right? So you get praise, it's like you get the dopamine hit when you make people laugh, so you think, I want more of that. And our job is quite performance based or can be so as a group coach, or as a trainer, or as a keynote speaker, I get to do that a lot. And so it's almost like, well, let's, you know, let's do it in a purer form, as it were.
And so how do you get into the Edinburgh Festival, is it literally you can rock up with your own football boots and set up a table and chair and make people laugh?
Yeah, and I think, I'm a big believer in stitching yourself up, if you want to make a change, making it impossible not to. I remember, there was a colleague of ours, when we worked together, who got a, she bought one of these self assembly wardrobes. And she hated putting together that kind of stuff. So she put it at her front door, so she had to physically climb over it in order to get in and out of her house. Because she knew that it would annoy her so much that eventually she'd crumble and put this bloody thing together. And I've just loved that as a metaphor for, How can I make it impossible not to, how can I stitch myself up so that if I want to do this thing, I've kind of got to do this thing. So it might be signing up for something where it's embarrassing to back out, like you and I did the London Marathon about the same time. And that was just like once you've signed up and told everyone, you just feel like such a muppet to back out. I'm a big believer in other people having accountability buddies. The only reason I'm remotely fit is having a class that I paid for I booked in and, and it's good fun. And I like the lady who runs it. So with comedy, I signed up for a comedy course, there was someone I knew who was doing it at the same time. And then you're on a conveyor belt, right? Just that one tiny step of going to a dodgy church hall, randomly in London, and messing about. And then the last module of the course is you do a gig. And then you kind of bit it, so once I made the decision with Edinburgh, it was mates actually it was, how middle aged am I, I'm in a bookclub. And so I was chatting to mates at book club, and they were like, do it do it. And I was putting all kind of obstacles in front of myself, you know, it's a lot of money and a lot of time and you got to have a venue to pick you and all rest of it. And there was one lady there went, That's complete nonsense, I went there as a student and put on a theatre show you just hand over, you know, you find a venue hand over your money, jobs a goodun. Oh busted. So he just kind of made it impossible not to then you find yourself up there go, Okay, I appear to be at Edinburgh, I better do this then!
And how long before you were kinda challenged to do it do it before the gig.
I missed, so I didn't appreciate how long in advance you needed to sign up. So I missed one year, if that makes sense. Went, Oh I'll do it. It's like, no, that's three months away. And you know everything's booked up. But then that meant I could do it. And I think that's another learn for me as I'm really impatient. And I'm like Cletus, stop doing a change because I think I've missed the boat. And that's a lesson the universe keeps teaching me is it's probably going to take longer than you think. It just is. And I haven't cracked that code. Maybe there's some way of doing it faster. But if I think about changes I'm trying to make now they might end up taking much longer than I would like them to.
And what you mentioned, you know, that little step that you made puts you on a conveyor belt. What keeps you on it and what chucks you off?
I think 99% of things try and chuck you off. (Because the universe is evil). It does seem that sometimes as I said, on my brighter moments, the universe is testing whether you really want to do it. And so I think, you know, I'm a mum, right? That's a really good excuse, really good excuse, there's always, you know, school clubs to ferry the little ones to, there's brilliant excuses there - I work, you know, paying the mortgage is a brilliant excuse. So, you know, they're all reasonable excuses, right. You know, finding the time. So I think I think it's almost like 100% of things we want to chuck you off. And, again, another lesson I keep needing to learn is just because you want to do something doesn't mean it's going to happen. And there's almost a comfort in going, I will do that thing, I am going to write another book. Oh, warm glow, warm, fuzzy glow. And that almost, you know, so the research that I've you know, read around goal setting is have the dream and then have a bloomin detailed plan. I'm not very good at detailed plans. So that's for me, where accountability buddies play a huge part. Someone to go, Next step, now, next step, have you done what you said you were gonna do, do you remember what you said you were going to do last week? Okay.
I note that you said, You continue to learn. And it picks up on a theme that I've recognised in myself, in clients I work with, that the learning doesn't just happen, and then it's done. Unless it's like building a house, you know, it's a structure and you can go I've done that click, I can leave it. But it seems that we continue to learn the same lesson again. And again, and again. And again. And again.
So frustrating. I just like, couldn't, I quite agree. It's almost depressing. You know, on a good month, I will journal and take a look at what's working, what isn't working. I don't pretend to stick at that the whole time. And it's always depressing. You look back and go, Oh, I had that learning in 2008. Great. So it's hard, I do find it hard not to get dispirited by that, not gonna lie.
And you've completely turned on its head for me again, because you said 10 minutes ago, you are more likely to do something for yourself when it's impossible not to. And you kinda try and stitch yourself up. Which is completely reversing the whole premise of what I started this podcast with was well I'm going to go from I have to, to I choose to. And what keeps showing up is, you know what choosing to means you're probably less likely to, all the people I've spoken to recently, they've said the same sort of thing. Well, when I have, when I'm at where it's impossible not to that gets it across the line. Has that been your experience?
But I think it's kind of it's an order, isn't it? Because there's a difference between, there's a difference between the kind of excuse of I have to, right, using the phrase, I have to as an excuse, I have to pay the mortgage, I have to take the kids to school as an excuse to not write the book, go to Edinburgh, alright. There's, if you've put in front of it, I choose to and therefore, I need to do X, Y, and Z and therefore I stitch myself up and that for me, so I think that choosing upfront is absolutely crucial. Having the time and space. And, you know, I've been on various kind of retreats and done various courses over the years that give you that timeout, having that timeout to go. What is important, how, What's your purpose? What's your compass bearing? You know, how are you going to choose to spend your time and focus and energy? What do you choose as your goal and then stitch yourself up. You know, because it's going to be at three o'clock in the morning the next day you go oh blooming heck! And then also there's I think there's points along the way I found the Olympics absolutely fascinating. Because only the people in question I think will know that when do you stop when do you keep going with any kind of project any kind of goal and I was reading an article recently about, you know, choice for giving up on stuff. And I look back at projects where I've chosen to let go of them. I think we should celebrate that more as well. We don't always feels like a failure and it's not choosing to no longer do this, but it's a choice forfeit to go, I'm stepping away from this have to train, does that make any sense at all?
I think it's very relevant. I think, you know, if we if I play it out and let's say somebody wants to make a change, and they're choosing to maybe stitching themselves up, and one of the ways I can stitch myself up is to do it publicly, and say, Hey, I'm gonna do this. And then six months later, for whatever circumstances, it doesn't feel right, it doesn't feel like the right thing to do. I know what my pattern of reliability, I'll get something done if I say I'm gonna do it, I would feel enormous guilt and shame, if I then choicefully said, No not for me anymore. I would find that really difficult.
I think I had a bit of an epiphany a couple of weeks ago, with an accountability buddy, where we've both got projects that we're kind of in that like, What are we doing? phase This isn't gonna work and have a revelation or, you know, let the cake bake. You know, you've taken it out of the oven too early. So have a review point, that is a choice or viewpoint, be clear on the criteria for that review, in the same way that you put the pinger on for 15 minutes, get the cake out of the oven, put a skewer in it and see as it come out clean or not, what's the equivalent? So with, you know, I know writing the book or doing another Edinburgh show, I think it's you know, do the first draft, do the kind of, you know, splurge of what is it and then give yourself two months and then have a choice or review to go, Is this singing to me? Does this feel meaningful? And then the criteria not kind of like, Oh, this is a bit hard. Oh, I haven't got much time? That's when you need to stitch yourself up. If it's still something you want to do, then you can choose whether to stay or go.
I completely relate to that. Because the reason I'm doing this podcast, for example, is I committed to doing it for a year, to myself, because I'm not really expecting anything to come out of it. I'm not expecting anyone to listen. But I made a commitment to myself to show up every week on a different format, come hell or high water, come wind, rain, hail and shine,I would, because I know that's a superpower of mine. I'll just get it done, if I commit to it, despite how hard it will be. And I've probably set myself this, you know, end of the 2021 to kind of go Okay, now time to review, to go, Alright, do I continue, do I continue the same way? Do I continue to do it a different way? Do I drop it? Do I see what else it means? And so I'm trying not to judge too quickly, but not just gonna continue choicelessly, ad infinitum. So I completely relate to what you've just said.
I need to take my own medicine, right? Because I'm a big, you know, I've got better at not listening to that voice at five o'clock in the morning, that voice at five or three in the morning, I mean at least it turns up with pretty much the same time. That's nice, to be at least consistent. Oh hello, right yeah, thanks for your input. We've got a review in a couple of weeks, stand down. And being clear on what the criteria are for reviewing it.
One of the things I'm sure people that are listening will be interested in, it feels like to me, and I think for most people that doing stand up would be one of the hardest things ever. And I think in the job that we do, as facilitators and coaches, it's a great thing to at least experiment with, because it really tests so many things. How do you, because I'm assuming you do? How did you and how do you continue to cope with the nerves, the anxiety when a joke falls flat, and it bombs? How do you deal with that?
It's funny again, it's one of the like, I was saying at the start this that, you know, are you funny is up there with are you good looking. But I do find it fascinating how we go, Oh startup's the hardest thing in the world. And like basically, all you're doing is standing up for 10 minutes, you know, five minutes, 10 minutes, or, you know, an hour max, right? Or if you're MCing, an evening max, whereas for most jobs, it's day in, day out. So it fascinates me that we kind of hold it up as being this really hard thing. I look at most jobs and go holy moly, you know, that's hard. So it's very interesting how we compare ourselves with other people and their roles and usually beat ourselves up. So I'll happily take the glitz. Yes, it's the hardest thing you can imagine doing and takes a special kind of person, which is nonsense. So, I'm kind of lucky in that I'm quite an, anxiety has been side by side with me most of my life. So that's, I'm no stranger to anxiety. So, you know, whether it was taking exams, going to school, changing jobs, everything has been a high level. So to get on stage that anxiety is normal, right, I'm used to that, that's no. So I think the whole feel of fear and do it anyway, if something's important to you. You know, I've learned that you just got to ride that ride that way. So yes, there are tricks and tips. So I, on a perfect gig, I would go, I'd make sure I have some nuts, that to me the perfect protein. I don't drink too much, I bite the side of my tongue ever so slightly to get enough kind of water in the mouth as it were, but don't drink too much else I'll pee all the time. So I'll go for a walk, I'll get some quiet space and I'll manufacture that by having white noise and headphones. So find somewhere in the venue that I can wander around. I'll try not to look at my content. And I've got you know, and breathing is one of the quickest ways you know so breathing, standing, standing, calmly breathing and finding phrases that work for you in your head, you know, for me for some bizarre reason, it's only a game show, you know, just silly phrases that kind of block out, there all kinds of like, you know, you're gonna feel anxious, right. And then with the dying on your backside. That's a really good metaphor for dying on your backside in life that you can do things to prep. So I've got better at having stock jokes for when something dies. Or when particular hecklers and particular things happen, that you've got stock ways of dealing with that. But I just channel, I don't know if you've heard of as a UK comic called James Acaster, who I think is brilliant. James Acaster. And his last show was about having a breakdown actually and coming back from that. He had a breakdown on like, basically on the Great British Bake Off on telly. So it was a very public kind of thing. And he just talks about like, It's your job, messing up is part of the job. It's part of the job. It just is. And I find that instantly comforting. I think that's true for life, that it just you can't avoid it. It's just part of the deal.
And the addition I would make is if you avoid it, you're not really living life.
Yeah although, I don't know, I have some kind of beef with, I do get the whole, you know, it's when we're uncomfortable we grow and all the rest of it. And maybe it's because I'm someone whose kind of lived with anxiety a lot, I do sometimes think that we - do we have to be really uncomfortable to grow, if that makes sense. So I think just chucking yourself needlessly into stress is sometimes something we do and kind of confuse it with growth. If that makes sense.
Where I was coming from was more that life can be messy. It's rare, it's rarely tied up in a bow. And you know, if you always want it tied up in a bow, you're probably not really living at the edge, you know, you're not really experiencing the messiness and the beauty and the chaos. That's my narrative of what life brings. So I remember reading Brene Brown said, you can't, what was it she said, You can't subjectively numb emotion. So if you do, you gotta numb it all. Whereas if you don't the only way you're gonna get to feel the real joy is to feel the real sad. You only get to feel the real happy when you feel the real angst. And almost like living feeling it all, as opposed to feeling none of it because you can't subjectively kinda go, I just wanna feel happy, not the bad bits. And so that's maybe part of my identity as I live my life and you know, this complete, topsy turvy way of living in the moment. Maybe that's one of my rules that I'm trying to live by and kind of accepting and expecting those moments, and it's maybe our comfort blanket way of getting through.
Interesting, I think maybe where I'm coming from is the kind of hero culture, see it a lot in the corporate world. (trumpet fanfare) I'm operating in 12 time zones, and I've got back to back meetings. And, you know, I'm putting myself out of my comfort zone by doing this promotion to a job that I can't stand and I'm never gonna see my family. And I think I see that a lot in my coaching work. And I definitely try to see the whole piece there. But the numbing thing is really interesting. And I think I'm getting better at going Hello, emotion, What's the message? Is the dashboard, right? And often, it's actually Oh, it's caveman part of my brain. Bless you, I could squeeze you. I can see you're not feeling safe right now. Let me reassure you. These are not another tribe with spears. You know, this is the 21st century and it's just the heckler. It's all good. And they're not part of our tribe. And we're not under threat. But thanks for the message, love it.
What a great explanation. I've been chatting to people recently about the distinction between having thoughts or being had by your thoughts. And what you've described is a perfect way of articulating having thoughts and not being had by them.
Yeah, I talk to my coachees a lot about Trevor, the caveman with the kids. That's how I articulated it. And I mean, there's all kinds of books right? Like there's, you know, the chimp paradox, people describe it differently. But yeah, Trevor the caveman is very chatty in my head. And to mix my metaphors, I want to just talk about kind of sushi bar conveyor belt, if you haven't seen those restaurants where they have like sushi on a belt. So Trevor the caveman is just producing all these thoughts a bit like sushi on the conveyor belt. I don't have to pick them up. I don't have to eat the pickled raw tuna. Thanks Trevor, oh it's come around again, oh haven't seen that one since 2008. Bless you still not gonna have it. Thank you, you know? Oh, I've had a nibble again, putting that one down.
We've only got a little bit time, I've got a couple more things I'd like to ask you. I want to pick up on the identity piece. If anyone's listening that has an inkling has a seed within them that they'd like to shift their identity. What advice, and I know it's not you know, here's three steps to doing it. You know, here's your top 10 lists. I know it's not as simple as that. But given the shift that you've made, and how this is how you see yourself. Any advice for someone that currently doesn't see themselves that way but would like to.
I really like Herminia Ibarra is one of my professional crushes. So she writes a lot for Harvard Business Review. And she talks about, she's got one about authenticity, which I found very helpful about kind of making it fluid identity sounds so fixed, right? It sounds very digital on or off, she's got a much more fluid concept of it. And I quite often use the metaphor of a wardrobe, in that you put on a new pair of shoes, and they feel a little bit tight or a bit weird then you wear them in and then they just they're fine right? Or you've got that really smart outfit that you probably would only wear for a wedding or a big party. You wouldn't wear it every day, but it's cool. It's in the wardrobe. So I think rather than thinking about identity shift for me, it's about what's helped is to go well, I can I can get another item in the wardrobe. And then suddenly you look and go, Oh I've got quite a big wardrobe. So I guess that's unpicking it from the scary word, or what I find quite overwhelming words like identity and just and just breaking it back down into into like for this occasion I can do this. I can wear that. (And who is the author H?) Ibarra, I-B-A-double R-A Herminia Ibarra.
Ok cool. Is it harder for a woman in stand up?
I think it was. I have you know, direct experiences or or we've already got a woman on the bill love, so won't have you tonight. And, But are women funny women aren't funny. Oh, you're quite funny for a girl and also being in the greenroom or being backstage and having male blokes, male comics eviscerate women on stage. So that was my experience probably 10-15 years ago. I would like to think that that has shifted massively. I mean, you know, that's come back to your identity piece, the role models out there. It's much more, if you said 15 years ago name a female comic, I think people would go, Uh um uh. Whereas now you could you could reel off, you know, a whole, a whole bunch. I think that the role model thing is, makes it easier to step into that identity as well.
Cool, why don't we pause there? I've got a few quickfire questions to throw at you if you're happy to take part in that. The first one's an obvious one for me. Who's your favourite comic?
I don't like choosing favourites. I find that limiting and annoying. So you probably, if you asked me that question tomorrow, I'd probably give it a different answer. So James Acaster is definitely up there. But then, you know, as a bazillion other people David Mitchell, Lee Mack.
I remember Lee Mack on I think it was Graham Norton telling his Butlins story. And I have never laughed so much in my life. Anyway, separate conversation. Favourite word in the English language?
Can I have two? Sesquipedalian pleonaste.
Okay, is that one word or two?
It's two words, and it's someone who uses too many long words unnecessarily. My mum was an English teacher who kept a dictionary in the car to wile away boring times.
A book that's changed your life.
Oh, book that's changed my life. Right, to be honest, Jilly Cooper 'Harriet', all right, which is most trashy Mills and Boon crud. But if at any low point in my life, when you need to just absorb yourself in something cotton wool, I know every word of that book. So I think we underestimate the power of something that's utterly absorbing and mind numbing. And also actually now reading it, it is a hilarious deconstruction of misogyny in the 1970s. Discuss.
And a rule you live your life by?
Rule I live my life by. Wow. Gosh, I think I just make it up as I go along. I'm not sure how many rules (That's the rule I make it up as I go along). I want to say something really profound and meaningful. I think it's my, Well, there's on the kids school on the door as you go in, it's got a quote by John Wesley, which is, Do all the good you can in all the ways you can, yada yada, yada. Yeah, I think it's just be kind, really at the end of the day.
Well, I think that's a perfect way to pause. H, thank you so much for your time and great, there's been no Mexican wave of construction going on next door.
Builders must be having a day off, very exciting. Well, thanks for having me on Pete. That was really good fun.
You're welcome, enjoyed it, speak soon.