Welcome to this week's episode of The Freedom Fridays podcast where my guest is a fellow Brit, who we began our relationship as colleagues, we become mates and kind of buddys in some way, shape or form. And Jane, Jane Atherton, who is my guest today as an entrepreneur, she is a business owner a founder of Infinix. She is a mindset consciousness, I was going to say guru, but I don't think we like the word guru, so I won't call you a guru, and a single mum. So Jane, welcome to the conversation.
Thank you, Pete. Thank you for having me.
You're very welcome. Jane, we start this by asking a very generic and big question. So that's how we'll start today. With the work that you do, with the clients that you're speaking to, with what you're observing in humanity, what do you observe people are seeking freedom from?
Yeah. Okay, podcast over. Done. All right. Could you expand a little...
Fearful stop. I believe with the 1000s of business professionals I've worked with over the years now, that humanity is operating from a level of fear. And whether that's conscious or unconscious. And I believe we are looking at strategies or ways anyways, to be free from that to be free from from that fear, even though we often don't even know what we're doing. But even know that we're coming from fear or want freedom from fear. But I believe a lot of the time, most of the time, I'd say, that's what people are wanting freedom from.
Okay. Is there any security in fear?
It probably keeps us in our comfort zones. If you're afraid of really shining, or if you're the other way, have fear of not being good enough. Perhaps there's some security and well, I'll stay here. Because it's like, a useful excuse, perhaps, perhaps not to really step up and lays with authenticity.
When do you think we develop it? Obviously, you could argue were born. The reason we're still here, depending on who you read 1000s and 1000s of years later is because we've avoided the dangerous things. For the adults and the executives that you work with, where did they develop it from?
Right, I think there's a couple of ways of looking at it because I hear what you say with we've evolved over however long and I think some of the fears inbuilt are necessary, or used to be necessary for survival, right? It's the old fight or flight. Those systems were absolutely required back in the day back in the prehistoric Sabre toothed Tigers coming great to have that fear in order to survive. So I think we come in naturally inbuilt with this with this system, this survival system that's a bit outdated or not always necessary now. But I think the other fear, that other fear meaning the less useful, or limiting belief or limiting perspective fear. Some say that's through is well is there's the whole debate, nature, nurture. Where does that come through conditioning? Does that come through the environment we've been raised in? There's other perspectives for more of a spiritual point of view, that we can bring in fear with us as well bring it in. Yeah, about to talk about incarnation. So I'm going to pause on incarnations. Maybe we'll loop back around to that. Yeah, we can bring that one in. But I believe that fear can come with us from other other places in times as well. Yeah.
Well, when you when you say some of our fears are outdated, I get what you're saying. I think I get what you're saying. Where, you know, and the Sabre Tooth Tiger gets a bad rap over the years, by the way.
Oh really?
Well, it's always the one that's quoted.
Not the Woolly Mammoth?
Not the Woolly Mammoth or the boa constrictor, whatever it is, but the Sabre toothed Tiger gets a bad rap and, you know, everyone can sense that. And you said they're outdated. And in some ways, you know, in those times it was preventing us from our perceived you know, death mauling by the Sabre toothed Tiger. Which again, you could argue to some extent was probably more true than not, because that was the, you know, the circle of life, all that sort of stuff. And you said they're outdated? What if I was to be sceptical - and say, Yeah, but if I don't get my performance review, correct? Or if I make that comment, the press will jump on it. And I will be perhaps even worse than dead, Because I'll be shamed. I'll be judged, you know, all of that sort of stuff. Can you share a view on that?
I can. I have a split view. One is, and I hear what you're saying. And I think a lot of people agree with that. If I'm not motivated by fear, I probably won't work as hard. If I'm not, you can maybe hear a bit of banging as well. There's a bit of a work going on upstairs, which is how the guru tapping in is the good tapping in and helping us drill down deeper, I think into into the conversation. Is what are we motivated by right? And I think in our society, it has been the norm particularly in the workplace. If I'm, I don't have fear, or if my team that have a little bit of fear, will they work as hard? If they're not coming for some fear of failure? Would they pick up the phone and try and get those new clients. And I think, where we're heading towards ideally, or an aspiration, in fact, could be what if the motivation was a towards moving as in moving towards the fulfilment of doing something really well, rather than the fear of failing in order to do it. And also, from a neuroscience perspective, looking at the workplace and performance, if we're driven, or motivated by fear, it's different chemicals in the brain, so we're less likely to be as effective. Because if there's too much cortisol, or adrenaline, which goes back to that fight or flight motivation, the prefrontal cortex typically doesn't ignite as much. And that's, I'm simplifying something that's quite complex here. But that's where our strategic thinking, innovative thinking, creative thinking comes from. And this is where there's sort of burnout, culture and overwhelm of, I'm so busy all the time. And reactive all the time, the vast majority of clients that we work with, that's what we're hearing. And I just wonder, though, if we turned off the cortisol tap, and didn't come from fear, what could be created instead, and it's that working smarter, rather than harder sort of thing? I don't think we can do our best work if we come from fear. Are there's some instances where it's useful? Yeah, I might prep more of a bit anxious about the keynote I'm doing next week. But if that's my primary motivator, I'll be so anxious in prepping it, I won't think of the best ideas. So a little bit of healthy cortisol, adrenaline, a little bit of healthy fear, fine, but not if that's the key, the key thing that's running the show?
And how would I make the distinction if you know, you and I have both been involved in and emersed in this work for a while, we may or may not have different levels of awareness compared to someone in the public. So someone in the public not really that interested, come across a couple of names, read a couple of books? How would I know how much fear is healthy versus not?
Yeah, great question. A few things that in my mind at once there, I think one is looking at your outputs, and what's the energy behind it? So I think the example I just gave if prepping for a keynote, or you've got a big presentation to make the front of your team and there's some senior people, is there that healthy fear that's propelling you to do it when you could procrastinate or do something else? Or is there so much of the fear that it's distracting you? So I think you'd look at what are the behaviours if there's too much distraction, procrastination, perhaps it will get in the way too much fear get in the way is probably my point. Whereas a little bit of fear might propel you on think that's how I simplify the distinction.
And I get the distinction, I'm just curious as to how someone would know, I switch off a bowl. But my understanding is once you switch once you've got the cortisol and the adrenaline going your system. You can't like attach to something. Oh, hang on. Just stop for a second.
Not exactly, it takes a little while to undo the symptoms.
It takes a little while. So Once once it's released once it kicks in, yeah, what then?
Number one is awareness. I always says, at least if you're aware of, oh, I'm feeling a bit anxious here, and my stress has gotten too much. Number one is to acknowledge that, I believe that brings your power back. And I think if you're not aware of it, but you're just reacting, and we often don't complete one thing and start another if we're in this distracted fear state, so number one to acknowledge it. And then you can choose to try to do a few bits about it if you like you. And I know with, yes, once it's in the system, it's there. But you can help it through, you take a breath, like, if you slow the breathing, you send a message to your nervous system that you're safe psychologically. So that Sabre toothed Tigers attacking you ain't breathing slow. So you're at least saying that the chemicals are in my system. But I'm counteracting them, you're taking a few breaths in an attempt to help those, those hormones and chemicals that are flooded through. Which I find does help even though I'm like, oh, no, my heart rate is up a little. If I do slow the breath here before that teams call or Zoom call, it can still help for the focus. And to get the best behaviours to get the best outcome as well.
Um, how long have you been, I guess it's always a practice. How long have you been practising that?
Over a decade, 12 years.
So the average person on the street, how long would it take? Or is it the sort of thing that they could do as a one off? Yep, that worked, move on? Or does it have to be a practice that has to be something they do regularly?
I think to catch it to make it a habit. Regular or just make it more useful, particularly when it's something that's really got you like? What's an example - even disappointing news a few months ago, we had really disappointing news about a prospect client, we thought it was going ahead big international situation, got the email in the inbox because of a procurement issue. My favourite stuff or favourite, favourite, they couldn't go ahead with OM Phoenix and I felt this overload. And that's more of a disappointment than a fear probably was fear of rejection or failure in there as well. But this sort of, for me now, because of the years of doing it, it helped with that situation and the instantaneous, really aware of how I felt - disappointed, embarrassed, rejected, etc. And even naming it or talking with my colleagues about it helped it to start to elevate and decrease. But to your question, can you do as a one off or as overtime, I think you can do both. For those who haven't really done much of this before. It's a brilliant 101 entry point. Just how am I feeling? If it's uncomfortable, probably breathe a bit more deeply. Just try a few conscious breaths. If you like that, if that feels good, do it do it more often. And just to see what happens and it'd be my suggestion until it becomes like an autopilot response to reactions.
Is it okay to forget to do that?
No. Of course it's okay.
Is it okay to lose your shirt a little bit Now and again, is that okay?
Oh, I always lose my shit. I feel my feelings, Pete. Yeah, definitely. I'm a big advocate. And like my five year old knows. Mommy feels lots of feelings, including like, grumpy mummy. I think there can be misunderstanding with the mindset stuff with let's be positive and I just don't even like that word. I think it's been overused. There can be uses for it to have a more positive perspective. But not at the - what's the word? There'll be positive rather than feeling your feelings like I believe and there's research around this with the body mind connection if you repress that bit of rage or upset and pretend you're okay, that can have long term impacts on your immune system actually. So yes, I think it's healthy to lose your shit just in the right direction. Not your child. Maybe not road rage. Maybe I'm a fan of a you know, get hit Get a pillow hit the wall. love doing that. Punch your mattress. Have you ever tried that?
No.
Is that not normal?
That's not a normal Pete Clark thing that I would do. I've never punched a mattress.
It's great. Next time you're really angry but you don't want to throw it at anyone, punch your mattress. It's great.
Here's a random thought though. Forgive me if you not aware of this. I'm sure you will. You know, there's there's no 90s book called The Five Love Languages. Yes. Right and how we express our connection and love to other people? Are you aware? Are there five anger expressing languages? You know, is there different ways to - Is there healthy ways and unhealthy ways to express the feeling of anger? Or what you know, whatever it is, did you get the idea - is the five practical hacks to write one punch the mattress 2 - take a pillow? bury your head in the pillow? You know? Are you aware of any kind of simple hacks to express but express in a healthy way?
Yep. I love it's like the opposite like five Love, Love Languages five Anger languages or anger expressions. So yes, there's the physical side, right? So that might be punching something or just moving - go for a run if that's your brisk walk? Number one, I think because physically it helps to move it through. Number two, linked but different, I think is are there any songs if you're quite auditory and you like music? Are there songs that helps you usually with a heavy guitar or bass or something that helps you get it out, we'll include that in the movement that that can help trigger as well. If there's a more sort of reflective anger, if that's possible. I don't know if you use reflective anger in a sentence before. Writing a letter that you never send or email, don't send it and you write you get it all out the system. And it really helps with you don't want to sweep resentment or bitterness under the carpet, particularly if it's a person that's triggered you it just it can fester so much and we never really let it go sometimes. So to write the letter is to get out the system. I've gone through a paper that because my pen has been so pressed into it like you can whatever whatever, you can just get it out. That's three - that's my top 3. But I think if you can share with someone that can help, I think but you'd watch that one not to go unload it to anyone really, because that can be quite burdensome on them. But if there's someone who knows quite good with with handling energy or handling strong emotion, you can go for a vent as long as they don't mind. That'd be my four.
Okay, cool. Thank you. There's your book title. One of the a - I'm just looking for it on my shelf so I can't see it immediately. But it's a book by pika Grange who I don't know if you're aware of she, she might even be in Qatar at the moment. She is the one of the sites that helped the English football team with the penalty taking strategies. And that's kind of one of our claims to fame. And one of the books that she's written is called Fear Less. So not fearless. So not the absence of fear. But to dilute it and not be driven by and to fear less. How does that tie into what you're suggesting that people are seeking freedom from?
Hmm. Yeah, yeah, I agree. It's not about having no fear. I think it's the absence of fear. I don't think that's necessarily possible. Fearing less I think possibly fearing less. Thinking of my own journey, and lots of the clients I've worked with, where what has happened is they've become more empowered, more comfortable in their own skin, less anxious. Has there been a decreasing of fear possibly. And I think it goes back to that the the awareness bit actually is what I'm reflecting on. It's in order to feel less I think you get on top of your fear a bit quicker by get on top of I mean, be more aware of again, so it's that oh, oh, I'm feeling a bit nervous or anxious before this call before this negotiation before this coaching session, whatever it is interesting. And even I think you could become more fear less. I think it shrinks more as soon as you're even aware of it. So yeah, I do agree with that premise. I haven't read her book. I'd love to because I think the psychology of the England for ball team. Very fascinating. And topical.
Yeah, well, we're recording this during the World Cup in 22, so it's kind of topical. At the start, you know, the big question seeking freedom from and you came at me, you know, with one word - fear. If that's what people are seeking freedom from, what are the heading to? Or is it purely an avoidance of fear? And I don't really care where the destination is, just not fear.
Hmm. I think for a lot of people, possibly the latter, but to take a more optimistic perspective. And I'm going higher level spirituality here Pete, what are we really seeking is I believe, that open a can of worms, I think, is that unity, and oneness is the actual goal. Knowing that I also think what are we seeking freedom from is separation. Now I understand this, or like, quite a nebulous - when I meditate, I get sort of a sense of this. I don't know if I can explain it in a way that would be practical. But ultimately, I believe, seeking freedom from separation towards unity towards oneness.
Can you go double-click on that a little bit? Give us the the layman's explanation? What does that mean? And explain it in a way, Because I again, I'm no expert, and I kind of get the idea. But it's very hard. I think for someone who hasn't been immersed in what you and I have been immersed in over the years. Yeah, even consider the concept of oneness. Yeah, when, you know, we're two separate people. We're living in two separate countries. You know, I've got 1000 books behind me. They're all different books. I can't put all the books into this. You know, I can't merge with this bottle of water I've got. And you know, if we were one, then why do we need zoom? And I'm being sceptical, obviously.
Yeah, well, exactly. That's it. It looks like in the physical dimension and explain what I mean by that in a second. You're over there in Australia. I'm over here in the UK. What's, oneness got to do with anything? And can I do layman's terms? I'm not sure. How do the layman's terms and unity consciousness? How do I best describe it? Well, even if I let me go back to see if, as I explained this example, see if it clarifies things or leads to another example. Like, if I've gotten stuck with not knowing what to do about a situation. So I've got a business problem. And I don't know what to do about it. If I think me by myself is sat here trying to figure it out. And it's just my brain and my mind. And it's feeling a bit stuck. And I don't know how to find solution. If I do one of my meditative practices and sit, always breathe first, it's the links back into state awareness, breathe, calm, and then the neuro, the brain chemistry. What I find I do is if I can, this isn't going to be simple, either. But as I breathe, I open up my consciousness. Einstein described it as genius consciousness that what if we were more than just this physical thing? What if we had access to our like, wise self, or higher self, some people say soul self. And I don't believe you need to have any kind of religious beliefs for this. I know friends are quite scientific you like this from the quantum physics perspective. And that I find if I get out of my own head, take a few breaths and intend to connect with genius consciousness. It's like you can tap into what's out there. In more of like, the Unity Consciousness, it can be called, or some people call it source energy, where it's beyond your own mind, really. And I find that's how I run my business actually is by on a Monday morning, I did it briefly this morning, is to sit and connect, get out of my own head and allow for the unity I have with the universe, the divine, whatever terminology that people feel most comfortable with. Then that's when wisdom can come in or ideas about different problems I've had, that solution can come. I just pause on that one. Is that is that? How's that landing?
Well, again, I don't know. I'm, I guess I'm asking the question from a perspective of people that wouldn't understand. And again, I don't necessarily understand all of that. But again, I have no issue with believing the possibility. I'm just wondering how you'd explain it to someone that, you know, the physical realm is the only realm.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, it was Steve Jobs who said he got his best business ideas in an ashram in India, because it was beyond just the physical. What he meant by beyond the physical was, and dimensions just mean. What dimensions mean? Well, there's physical dimension, then there's the mental dimension of the mind, and there's the emotional dimension. And it's just tuning in to more wisdom than we have. And I find whenever that happens, that's where like, my whole business arose from trying to find some peace, while I had Leo as a one year old, meditating and breathing and just doing different sort of visualisation exercises. And then these ideas if it felt like they came in, rather than me, forcing them or coming up with them just by myself, it was more of a being receptive to something bigger than my own physical being my brain. And that's I've continued to run the whole business.
Like, is that, I think it's the, what's called the 100th Monkey effect. Are you familiar with that?
I have heard this knot for years remind me of it.
I think it's I don't know if it's actually monkeys. The example I remember hearing about is, you know, we both grew up in the UK. Probably far before any of us were born. I can't remember. Remember, when milk was delivered to doorsteps. It used to have no tops, it was like milk free to the air. And obviously, all the birds would recognise that they'd come in, and, you know, drink the milk. And then when some Brightspark decided to put silver tops, or foil over the top of the milk, to keep it fresher, etc, etc. At the start, the birds didn't know what to do, until some bird accidentally or consciously tapped through the silver foil, and then started eating and drinking the milk again. And that spread really quickly across different migrating birds across many countries. Without an email, or a PowerPoint deck, or, you know, some sort of media broadcast. And so the 100th Monkey effect is that phenomenon that seems to happen sometimes when something's communicated, something's learned, something's heard across more than just the physical realm without there being any physical, necessarily communication about it.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I'm going to use that story moving forward to explain this. And it's like, if anyone's ever had that thing, have you? Think about calling someone, you look at the phone, and they've text you or they've called you. I've had friends of mine overseas, that we've had similar ideas about business problems or challenges, we haven't communicated it yet than we realise has been something, something that we've shared in consciousness, particular people you're close with. And I find even with that, just football for a quick context with high performing teams, whether business or sport or other, there is some kind of unspoken unity, where you see Harry Kane, the England's Captain kick that ball, he doesn't even look up. And yes, it's been practice and practice and practice. But watch, I was watching them yesterday on the TV, and I'm like, there's almost an intuitive connection and bond they've now formed. That, for me is also about this interconnectedness and oneness that there's such closeness as watching it thinking. This is what all teams any high performing team in any industry that's specific with their drills and such, but I think there's equivalents that can be made there with how they interact, and there's that clear alignment of where they're heading. But there seems to be a heart base with them as well. Like there's this heart connection that seems to enable them to really listen to what the others did you see the team and how it can be used. And I was thinking I need to talk to my client about this, they're not operating like this. It would be really useful if they were more aligned and more unified like that. to score goals quote unquote.
I'm a little bit distracted, you apologise. I'm looking for an image. I can't remember what it's called, but it's something In like a forest of trees or something, and it's an image that, are you familiar with it? And it's the image that or the idea that all trees are connected. Right? Not above the surface, because obviously they're not, you know, in different, the same forest, it might be, but not in different forests, but under the ground, because of the root system and the chemicals and all this other bits of trail, you know, all the trees are connected underground. Is that similar?
It is, yeah. There's a framework called the V diagram that has it like the other way. So if the roots are down down here, it's that each individual person has like a V shape. So you have the physical the tip, and that's the bit we associate with the most. It's Pete sat over there, I'm sat here, then of the V diagram, the next level up is that sort of mental wellness, the thoughts, the beliefs that are all in there. Above that, then the emotional, all our emotions or our feeling state and that can be old stuff that we don't even know is in there. The one above that, so it's it's shaped like a kind of Toblerone. You know, Toblerone with an upset and Toblerone so it's V and then out. The idea is we're all these, Toblerone. So we're all Vs. So where's the roots of a tree all connects underneath we'll connect from the top. And at the top, it's called the void or the quantum. And it's that way around of how we're all connected to every thought that goes up is into the quantum or into collective consciousness, which basically means we all share similar thing. And it all influences it. So I've heard meditation teachers talk about what's in the collective what's in the collective mindset of society, i.e. a lot of fear about cost of living crisis, right? So if everyone's having fear, it's really hard not to feel fear, because it's in the sort of collective mindset. And so hard to do you practice is not to buy into, or be completely influenced by what's happening in the collective mindset, because it can really impact your own mindset, your own feelings. So it's like the inverse example of what you share with the trees.
And I'm going, I'm going to be really judgmental here on some words. So if that's the case, if the, if the collective consciousness is feeling fear, for example, the cost of living crisis, how does one live a normal life thing?
Normal?
That's the judgement right? That's the judgement word.
Well, normal is currently normal is to feel what everyone else is feeling. Yeah. So it's more how to live an abnormal life to cut from the energy. And this is getting into the realms of etheric cords, and how to keep your energy field clean. So you have to even buy into the concept of having an energy field just to speak plainly. There are processes from the worlds of Eastern philosophy and neuroscience where you can you sort of you have to do this regularly to detach and to cut from the collective mindset. You're living by the ocean as I know, you yourself are getting saltwater it just pulls out a lot of the negativity from from the from the physical body but also the other dimensions as well. So it's what I'm interested in is living a abnormal life and not buying into the usually the mindset or fears that seems to be quite present in society.
And so I'll claim this to despite what I know I'm have been immersed in for a long time. What are you still fearful of?
So many things right? I'm what specifically? I'm trying to pick one. Which one should I pick?
I think whilst I'm choosing what's got a good story around it. I'm more fear less than I've ever been. Because of all of this, and which fear I pick in imposter is pretty good these days. So not fear of not been good enough. Yeah.
That seems pretty universal. So we just parked there for a second. So what's what I'm asking you to speculate for those that might be listening because they might be interested. What's the difference between your fear of not being good enough? Versus someone else's fear of not being good enough? You might not know what you know, have been immersed in what you've been immersed in, how is it different?
Ask that question. Again. My perspective aor someone elses perspective about fear of, imagine two people, one, Jane, who's got a fear of not being good enough, but she's been immersed in studying it, understanding impostor syndrome, understanding the real courage, etc, etc. But she still fears not being good enough versus, you know, Joe Public on the street, GA in public on the street, they are fearing not being good enough, how is used to have not been good enough different to their fear of not being good enough?
A very clear answer to this. Joe public thinks it's the truth. They don't know. It's a belief. Whereas I know now after the Oh, it's this again? Oh, it's this again, because it washes up again, at a higher level every time. Oh, it's my fear of not being good enough showing up again, I must have evolved. Oh, it's because I'm now a leadership consultant, rather than just just a mindset one. So my own self worth is catching up. Great. Whereas before I learned all this, I think for the average person, the fear of not being good enough, it just sits as, No, I'm just not good enough. And not understanding that. No, it's not the truth. It's a belief and it can be changed and refined. That's the key distinction for me.
Nice distinction. Thank you, Pete. If you're happy to I'd love to chat about your experience of being a single mum. In that, first and foremost, you know, I've no idea how you do it. Given I know what our jobs are like, and how intense that can be how much it can grow arms and legs and your work in the world of client land. It's pretty tough sometimes, and you run your own business, that's tough enough, and you know, all of this stuff that we're doing, we're always looking at how am I complicit in all of this? And on top of that, you're a single mom to Leo right? How on earth, do you balance, cope, survive, and possibly breathe in all of that?
I balance my Yin with my Yang.
Okay, now, talk to Joe and Jane public industry. What does that mean?
And that was my last etheric answer, actually. So, so simplify. In ancient Chinese philosophy, most people I think, are familiar with the Yin Yang symbol, the black and white symbol. I found this information over the last few years be really useful just to distinguish between these two different parts. Yang is the white part of the symbol, and it represents a masculine energy, we all have both, it's not about gender, but masculine energy, action, usually. So attributes such as structure, order, assertion, outcome focused, usually more self orientated, toxic, might be aggressive, to forceful that's the Yang and is typically more revered in the West, too much of it leads to burnout. And I think in our culture, it's yes, you've achieved something, oh, now you're worthy, or your busy. We're all busy. It's that sort of fire energy. The other aspect being the Yin is the restorative, more feminine. Patience, there's reflection. There's deep compassion for self and others. And I found over the years I was so yang for so long, and and celebrated and acknowledged in the business world, the job I've had over the years for that, but I found as the pressure has gotten bigger, and now I have my son, and I'm the only one doing the school run. I find if I'm only Yin Yang, I will make myself sick are burnout. And so in order to balance that I'm not interested in working weekends, while I can't because a Leo but I also don't want to work evenings, my energy is no good that I must have my own time. So I make sure I'm very Yin. And by Yin, I make sure the beginning of the day I don't start work unless I've done my breathing. So I'm not coming from fight or flight as much as possible. So I tune into my instincts, our intuition and my wisdom, rather than reacting. And also not coming from this sort of pressure or fear of growing the business like it's going really well, holistically and I have certain intentions. I used to put so much pressure on myself, you've got to hit this milestone in six months. So and again, I think it's that there's quite a sort of Yang thing of what next what's the next goal rather than it's great as it is, and it is growing. And let's just relax. Anyway, I got a young young child and enough on my plate. Yes, I have a big purpose and I want to have impact, but not with burnout. So that's, that's sort of starting to answer the question around. How, how do I cope? And it's not just how do I survive? It's thriving. I really love life, and I find a lot of joy in it as well. So it's not all burdensome, and I am yeah.
I'm, you know, I'm a parent too. And I've gone through that stage, albeit different scenarios. And what I'm interested in is how you then navigate that that all sounds brilliant, and sounds great. What a lovely way to balance your yin to your Yang. I'm going to guess that on occasions Leo does not respect your Yin and your Yang.
No, he fucking doesn't.
So how do you how do you do it, then when your partner the kids, your friends, you know, other external relationships that you want to keep, you know, they're important to you as he is. And he's not ready to balance his yin and yang at the same time as you are? How do you navigate that?
The two things come to mind. One is it comes down to 100% responsibility with if I've sat and done some my breathing and balanced my own brain chemistry. Then when the little bugger won't put his shoes on for the school run, and I've asked him six times, I'm less likely to lose my shit and do one of the five anger Loveline languages. And oh, my god, isn't it there's nothing around that the perfection of this with I do my yinyang. And it's all put it's, it's and messy and I lose my shit. And I feel shame. And then I apologise to him, and he cries, and I cry like that, too. But I think there is more of the joy and the good stuff because of the balancing. So I think your question about other people aren't doing it? Well, we don't wait for them or anyone else to look at their own Yin, Yang, so to speak. But I find a way more tolerant and contented in myself, if I've made the effort to elevate my mindset to reflect on any stresses or judgments I've got. And I tend to find people respond to where you are. So if I'm stressing, or my not feeling good enough, is showing up, they usually respond to that. Whereas if I'm in a quite a good present, open hearted place, tends to be reflected that. So we have the choice, I'd say,
Yeah, I've said to people in the past that I, it's definitely harder when we're on screens, but when we're in person, there there is this inadvertent molecule exchange. And so if you are calm dealing with a crying child, it doesn't necessarily immediately stop and go, Oh, Mom, you are calm. Haha, no, but if there's a molecule exchange, it tends to have that impact. And as you were talking, it reminded me of something I heard from Brene Brown, I'm sure you know, not personally, perhaps. And she said, You can't selectively numb emotion. And so are you saying there's some benefit in fully expressing either end of it? Because the counter would be what you can't selectively numb it. I'm going to numb it all.
Yep, to the emotional pendulum, right. It's the No, I don't want to get angry ever. That's not the right thing to do. So I'll if there's a pendulum, so I'm just going to - If rage is here, I'm not feeling that. So I'll go to here. Problem is joy is at this end. So you only get to joy if you go into rage, or grief. If it's like, that's too uncomfortable. So I'm going to I'll go here, it means you just hit there, though, that the range of the emotional pendulum, if you call it, yeah, is much more numb. So I am all for and so I'm with my five year old if he wants to scream the place down. I let him feel his feelings as much as possible. If he wants to express his rage or his sadness, it's too tempting to say oh, don't cry, don't cry to a child. I think we've all done it. And I think that can have a really big impact and then as we're grown ups it's in there don't cry Don't cry. Why not? I think let it all hang out. It's so good for us. And the payoff is the other side of the pendulum where happiness you know Happy for No Reason can happen rather than happy because some external thing is is happening. So yeah, I love that from Brene Brown.
Yeah, I wonder how many people are suppressing and not letting the pendulum swing a little bit?
I yeah, I mean, that's, most people do. We all do that. I mean, I think for the most part, I think it's it's the way of being at the moment. Hopefully things will keep shifting as we talk more about psychology and such. But um, hence why I think I talked about anger earlier as well. And I've never been afraid to let Leo see see Mommy's, I don't know if you'd call it. Negative emotions. I don't think any emotions negative, but it's when he when I have lost my shit. And then he gets upset. And when your child says, mommy, you're scaring me, and it's like, oh, God, but we sit and talk about it. And then it's the sitting in there. I'm sorry. You didn't deserve that. I love you and you're safe. And this is what happened. You didn't listen to me again. And again, I felt disrespected. You didn't deserve it. But this is. So I think with our children and God and with your partners with anybody. Colleagues, I mean, anger is a little different, maybe but at OM Phoenix we do our best to be authentic with each other. And sometimes it's really uncomfortable, but to apologise if I've been a bit harsh or to check in with someone who was a little snippy or passive aggressive and oh, what's happening there, shall we? It can be uncomfortable. But that's how you have incredible connection and outcome.
Fascinating. Because we're recording a podcast and you know, I'd love to chat longer. For any of the single parents out there listening can you give us the kind of Georgian public's top three tips for being a single parent and I know that's crass even suggest it's that simple. I'm not suggesting it's that simple. But are the two or three principles that you come back to when you're trying to be centred and the best parent you can be?
Okay. Three things. One is if there's a practical, Yin thing around to sit and breathe even for 30 seconds, you're less likely to react if you're under pressure with your children or child number one, number one breathe. Number two, and this is related actually self care where you can rest. Again I think it's this culture of the kids are down I'm not going to tidy the house or I'd go back on my emails or I... where you can't self care have a bath or just not put Netflix on and sit on the phone because we're not really restoring. Gind like real switch off self care. And number three of the self forgiveness, which I think this could be for most parents, any parent, oh, there's my mama, my mama. Letting back off the train station. The lie is that we're all very hard on ourselves. And there's a I hear the coin mum guilt a lot. The antidote to guilt is self forgiveness. So it's there and how I'm doing my best I forgive myself and that's all you need to say I'm doing my best. I forgive myself. And you can lots on YouTube, different meditations around that so I think it's there. Breathe, make spaciousness for self care and forgive yourself for not being perfect. Four - find the joy in your child for his joy
Jane, i think that's probably a perfect place to pause because it's hard for me to reconcile I've not I'm a parent by I've never been a single parent feels like it's sometimes when my wife goes away for the weekend or something that seems ridiculous. Compared to someone like you who's living and breathing it and being the best Jane, daughter, Mum, founder that you can possibly be such there's total and unconditional admiration for anyone in your situation who's having to cope with anything less than what the average person seems to have.
Thank you. And so thank you for sharing some of that wisdom. That's been I'm sure its going to be very helpful for some people. Couple of things just to finish on working people get a hold of you if they're interested. How can they connect with you with links?
Go LinkedIn, right? Okay, my I think my name and OM Phoenix.
Phoenix for us. Yes.
Oh, em, and then Phoenix like the mythical bird P H
not the Garmin watch then.
No, not that one. Oh the city in Arizona.
Oh, cool. And then just to kind of like questions hopefully we're late to end us with a you more day or night?
Day
Red or white wine? Red.
And you said you're from Manchester City or United? City
North or South? North
House or apartment? apartment.
Okay I know you're a reader, what's, what's a book that's changed your life?
It'd be the first one I picked up on mindset. And for anyone who's been interested in stuff I've said but might not have understood all of it to start with. Heal your life by Louise Hay. 15 years ago, I have picked that book up heal your life Louise Hay, pioneer of mindset, the mind body connection and she advocates self forgiveness. She's the grandmother of mindset.
Well, that's a great recommendation. Jane, thank you so much for agreeing to be part of the podcast and probably more, thank you for just being so vulnerable and sharing your experiences.
Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thanks.
